100%, dead wrong about Iraq. / Political Asylum
TMF: I was 100%, dead wrong about Iraq. / Political Asylum: "Politics & Current Events / Political Asylum
Author: ramsfanray
Subject: I was 100%, dead wrong about Iraq. Date: 12/2/04 10:38 AM
Recommendations: 246
Go easy on me, I am about to get very personal.
As long-timers know, when we first went to Iraq, I was totally in favor of it. For a number of reasons:
1 - I hate dictators like Saddam and think they should be gotten rid of whenever possible.
2- I believed that he was developing or already had developed WMD's.
3- I believed that he would have no problems providing terrorists groups with these WMD's to use against us. He would not care if those terrorists groups, like Al Queda, didn't like him much, it is quite reasonsable to assume their hatred for us is greater than their hatred for him. The enemy of my enemy may not be my friend, but we can certainly work together on a temporary basis.
So we invaded, in the worst kept secret invasion in the history of warfare. The tv show Survivor has fewer leaks. And following the invasion and unseating of Saddam, we found no WMD's. This bothered me greatly. I believed that Saddam used the time that we were farting around with the UN, to smuggle them out of the country an into Syria.
Then, several weeks ago, Bush's own man put out a report that claimed that our intelligence was faulty and Saddam hasn't had WMD's since the end of the Gulf War. He was running a bluff.
To me this was a slap in the face. We are the greatest nation in the world. The lone super-power. There is no excuse to have bad intelligence. Oh sure, there will be a mole that slips through, and some things will be missed, but when it comes to deciding to go to war, every bit of intelligence needs to be triple-checked and then double-checked again. There should have been a lot of people working on this, and there should have been fail-safes in place. To have something bad happen in a war because of bad intelligence is understandable. To go to war because of it, is unforgivable.
And so I didn't vote for Bush. But, still, I thought, the war hasn't been a total loss. We did get rid of a dictator. That's always a good thing.
But doubts remained, wasn't there another way to get rid of him? A lot of good people, (and a lot of bad ones) have died in this war. Was there a better way? And if not, was that accomplishment alone enough to justify this war?
Yesterday, I got my answer. NO. Getting rid of Saddam, tyrant that he was, is not justification for this war. It was not worth one American life.
Yesterday, my little brother, a newly commissioned officer in the United States Army, got orders to deploy to Iraq in January. He will be there for 16 months. I am not surprised by this, he graduated from college last spring where he went through ROTC. So, I have always known that him going to Iraq was a strong possibility. When it was just a possibility, people would ask me how I would feel if he were killed in this war, and I always said, that I would be proud that he died defending this nation. Now that it is real, I find that I was full of crap. I don't want him to go, and I don't want him to die. I can't convince myself that, if the worst happens, it will be worth it. And if it isn' worth it for my brother to die, then it hasn't been worth it for anyone else's brother to have already died.
I was wrong to have ever supported this war, and I am ashamed of myself that I couldn't see it before it impacted me personally. I don't know if Bush lied because he wanted be macho and had a personal vendetta against Sadda. I don't know if this was all about oil and Haliburton is behind the war. I don't if the administration truely believed that this was a good thing and would really protect out country. And frankly, I don't care. Whatever the reason, good or bad, this has been a mistake. One that I hope and pray, my family will not have to pay for. I know that some will feel that it would only be just if that were to happen, but I hope you can find some compassion in your heart, not for me, beat me up on the board as much as you want, but for my brother and his family. He and his wife just had their first baby back in September. My father died just three years ago at a fairly young age (55) and I think losing a son too would destroy my mother. I ask for your prayers, not for me, but for my brother, and for all the soldiers, and their familys, who are in harms way because of an intelligence mistake.
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Author: JBtheJunkist     | |
| Subject: My Feelings of Disconnect | Date: 1/25/05 7:42 PM |
Recommendations: 242
Well, I made it home on December 24th, 2004. All is well in JBville. The new house on the lake is gorgeous
I've been asked by several groups to come and speak of my experiences in Iraq. I was asked by a church to make a public pronouncement of my faith and of how my faith kept me alive and brought me home. I went to each engagement and spoke at the appropriate level
I went. I spoke briefly of having no fear and of not worrying about my wife and children being taken care of should I have met my demise. I spoke of consoling others who were frightened and of how my wonderful relationships helped to keep my going. I spoke of how my daily conversations kept my heart full and a smile on my face. I spoke of how low I felt on the days I didn't
Then, I said, "Most of you may think I am a Christian. All of the attributes I have spoken of can easily be linked to a Christian lifestyle. I stand before you today to say my public pronouncement of faith. Of all these things I have spoken of, I have no fear, for I have lived my life to the fullest each day. I don't worry about my family being taken care of, because I am well insured and we have plenty of money saved. Also, my wife is an uncommonly strong woman, who will raise my children properly and proudly should I ever die. I could console others, because of the strength of my relationships with my wife and family. My daily conversations were with the people who matter most to me -- my wife and family. The lows I felt were from not hearing their voices. My complete faith is in my wife and I's relationship with one another and my relationships with my family. I am proud and honored to serve my country, my state, my town, my family and anyone who needs help, regardless of their race, religion, creed, color or political ideologies. I feel great, because I "know" I have done all I can do to make everything I my life right with others. Now, I must stand before you and tell you a truth that will surely ostracize me as thoroughly as Christians throughout history have suffered until the present. I am an athiest. My public profession of faith is there is no god. There is nothing but this life and what we leave behind when we deal with one another. There is no greater thing in this world but truth, love and service to one another. I can no longer allow the lie that you all have perceived of me to linger in this world. In truth, I am an athiest, and my heart is at peace. Should any of you who were my friends five minutes ago no longer wish to have me in your lives, I do not understand, for I have been but truthful to you. I will, however, honor your wish and long cherish the memories of great times, good conversations, and unfettered friendships. But I will no longer live the lie that is Christianity. Thank you for allowing me to speak today."
Of course, you could have heard a pin drop. As I walked out of the front door, I realize, now more than ever, how disconnected I am in this state, at this time.
It's good to be alive and at home, with the people I love.
Peace,
JB
Author: Busters33  | |
| Subject: R.I.P. Liberalism | Date: 11/3/04 1:21 AM |
Recommendations: 220
1. The worst pResident in the history of the U.S.
2. An idiot
3. A thief
4. A war monger
5. murderer
6. a threat to our civil liberties
7. an Empire builder
8. countless other accusations I can't recall
and you COULD NOT BEAT him. Where does this leave you? If you can't beat a president guilty of all the above what does that say about your party? your platform? your ideals? You also lost 3 Senate seats it appears. It would appear you have a lot of work to do in the next four years to make America a two party country again. Or rather than hard work, perhaps you can just continue to rally behind Michael Moore, P. Diddy, Dan Blather (who is almost crying on TV right now) and a candidate who had absolutely no core values and was entirely poll driven. I will sleep well knowing that America as a whole has enough sense to realize that a campaign based entirely on hate is not worth a vote. I'm not sure how you liberals will sleep.
Busters
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| Author: warisfun | |
| Subject: All offense intended | Date: 11/4/04 11:52 PM |
Recommendations: 217
The Republican party is a disgrace.
This was the party that started with Lincoln, the first Republican President (and I bet 99% of you who voted for Bush didn't know that), it was originally called the "free land" party.
Is there a more "liberal" moment in American History than the freeing of the slaves? The Republican party has had its ups and downs, and I wouldn't consider Nov 2 one of the former.
Once a lost, fiscally conservative party, saved by Barry Goldwater (who ultimately distanced himself from the religious right), it is now a big spending fiasco run by Karl Rove, a man who has compromised conservative principles to cater to gay hating rednecks who believe the ten commandments should be read daily in our public schools. Tom DeLay is just the tip of the iceberg, here come the SUPER CONSERVATIVES. You've been warned.
All offense intended, Bush is the stupidest, most reckless and incompetent president America has ever had. He's a dry drunk who blames everyone but himself, a spoiled jerk who thinks the bible will purge him of his cronyism sins. The stress of the Presidency has clearly made him lose his goddamned mind, now he thinks he has "political capital" to reform the tax code, something he didn't RUN on and which NOBODY in America voted for. IN FACT, his lame attempts to mention taxes in his campaign were quickly silenced by his staff (remember the all tax is sales tax idea?).
His campaign was an ethical disgrace. His NatSec people ignored every al Queda memo, but he runs on al Queda. He's governor of the 38th ranked state in education, but he runs on education. His plan for his second term cost twice that of Kerry's, but he calls Kerry a tax and spend liberal (In fact, Kerry's record was widely considered "pay as you go"). He makes a terrible mistake invading Iraq, gambling on WMD discovery, but he runs on his "decisiveness". He allowed his 527 cronies to LIE (and they were all lies) about Kerry's Vietnam record when he was a draft dodger who once lied about being in the air force to win a local election in Texas.
America wasn't interested in all of that, which was as obvious as the noses on their fat faces, instead picking Bush for "moral values". That means no gay marriage and no boobs at the Super Bowl. Woo hoo. Hand me a beer and play some Toby Keith.
You can have your new Republican party. Have fun losing your basic rights. Have fun when Bush raises your taxes, and he will, just like his daddy. Have fun when he drafts your fat stupid ___ to go to Iran or N.Korea. Have fun when he mortgages your future for his legacy. Have fun watching China and Iran bankrupt the US through proxy wars.
Most of those who live in Red states won't have to worry about terrorism while most of the blue states do. Ironic huh? Next time you think Bush got a "decisive" victory, remember that half the country hates him and so does 90% of the world.
This isn't my America.
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| Author: JDCRex | |
| Subject: I'm not going to be politcally correct about it | Date: 11/3/04 6:45 AM |
Recommendations: 203
The Evangelicals.
They are EXACTLY the type of people who a few hundred years ago were burning witches at the stake. The only thing that prevents that now is a a few centuries of social decorum. Anyhow, they now get to do it at the ballot box to a certain extent, so that satiates their sadistic tendencies enough to keep them happy.
Anyone, ANYONE who shovels money to the cap-toothed pompadoured charlatans who run these religio-businesses, who believes that the earth is not much more than 5 thousand years old, who would hardly have ever come across an open homosexual yet is convinced that they are a threat to their family is an absolute MORON. Simple as that.
And you certainly don't have to be an atheist to realise this. Plenty of very religious people can comprehend the unvarnished truth about these dazzle-eyed maniacs. But, they are George W. Bush's base, or a very important part of it. And they've put him back in the White House.
They didn't do it for free, though. Watch out America. The Rapture crowd are coming. And they won't have the good graces to vanish into the sky like they are always hoping they will. They've got judges to appoint, gays to politically ghetto-ise and schools to ruin with fairytale standing in the place of science. And, of course, all those inerrant biblical prophecies to fulfill in the Middle East. They won't get it all, of course, but they're going to try their hardest, with IOUs as collateral.
The Pod People are on the march!
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Author: LorenCobb    | |
| Subject: German Pumps - Ja! | Date: 9/21/05 10:32 AM |
Recommendations: 185
About 10 days ago I was in a hotel in the Dominican Republic, watching Deutsche Welle, the German international television channel. I saw a great story about a team of 89 experts from Germany that had flown over with some 15 high performance pumps to help pump out the city.
Ten days later, I hear that New Orleans is dry. But has there been any mention in the US media of Germany's help?? Any thanks to Germany? None that I have seen.
Deutsche Welle (English version):
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1704325,00.html
Here are quotes from two European sources (found through Google):
The German mobile pumps were installed Saturday at Station 19 and already have moved 20 million liters of water out of the flooded city. Their progress could be measured late Sunday by the high-water mark on the brick wall of the station, which was two meters above the surface of the remaining black water.
The pumpers work around the clock in 12-hour shifts -- in the sweltering daytime heat and at night when the only sound other than the forlorn howling of abandoned dogs in the deserted city is the churning of the pump motors and the gurgling of water pouring into the canal. It's tough work hauling the drainage hoses, which weigh as much as 180 kilograms, from place to place as the pumps are moved.
"The heat is a problem for us," Weber said. "We're not really used to this climate."
Most of the pumpers are volunteers who left their jobs for four weeks to help Americans recover from Katrina, the latest in a string of disasters where their expertise has been needed.
The agency, known in German as Technisches Hilfswerk, helped dry areas flooded by the Asian tsunami last year and by heavy rains in the south of France in 2003.
"It's great to be in America and help the people here. It's a great feeling to be here," said Oliver Braun, leader of the team working at Station 19.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/12092005/323/german-pumping-team-helps-new-orleans-flooding-recede-faster-expected.html
The THW mission includes 89 experts in water damage/pumping and infrastructure and a five-person support team from the Cross of St. John; they are joined by five members of the Luxembourg Civil Defense. The group arrived in New Orleans on September 8. The TWH team brought with them 15 high-capacity pumps – 10 which can handle up to 15,000 liters per minute, and 5 which can handle 5,000 liters per minute – and has so far deployed pumps in four locations in the city and in neighboring St. Bernard's Parish.
http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/politics/new/pol_bo_THW_09_2005.htm
I realize that President Bush, in common with a lot of Americans, finds it difficult to admit that international aid has been helpful. But how hard is it, really, to stand up and say, "Thank you!" once in a while?
I'll do it myself: "Dankeschön, Deutschland!"
Loren
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uthor: sandyleelee  | |
| Subject: Tee hee | Date: 10/17/05 7:55 PM |
Recommendations: 180
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aIh7Ul2ZhzQE&refer=top_world_news |
| Author: IronicFelix | |
| Subject: I honestly don't get it. | Date: 2/4/05 4:24 AM |
Recommendations: 166
If Social Security is running a surplus and won't run a deficit until sometime about 40 years from now...
...and the country as a whole is currently running a deficit and is actually borrowing from Social Security...
...why is it that Social Security's possible future revenue-payments imbalance is considered a crisis whereas the current federal budget deficit is not?
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| Author: rsimbob | |
| Subject: Sometimes I hate being right | Date: 9/9/05 8:28 AM |
Recommendations: 165
As an American citizen, I wish that Bush could think. I wish that he could speak. I wish that he could act in some interest beyond his own. I wish that he wasn't in the pocket of our own fringe of religious fundamentalist would-be overlords. I wish that he wasn't stage-managed by people who use their positions of power to impose repression in the name of their misconception of liberty. I wish that he had any comprehension of our history, our economy, our language, our law or our society so he could actually form a vision of the future that includes all of the people in our nation and the place of our nation in the world. I wish that as executive he had the experience and ability to execute anything other than mentally impaired prisoners.
I don't want him to fail. That's not in my interest. But, regardless of his approval rating, he is failing whether I want him to or not; and the swiftness and thoroughness of his failure will exact a terrible price on all of us for years to come if it cannot be slowed and checked -- even on those who are sufficiently short-sighted today to believe that they approve of his performance.
Surviving Bush and the dark forces of ignorance, fear, greed and self-righteous superstition that are massed behind his vacant smirk will be one of the greatest tests of our republic.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=17426326
Who knew then that surviving Bush would be so much more than a theoretical political exercise? Who knew that his ignorance, fear, greed and self-righteous superstition would actually cost the lives of so many people then alive.
Innocent Iraqui men, women and children caught in his war for lies who have died at a rate even Saddam culdn't achieve. American troops sent in inadequate numbers with inadequate equipment and inadequate training to perform a fool's errand based on inadequate planning under inadequate leadership. American children, mostly poor and mostly dark skinned, in cities across the country as programs that housed, fed, and protected them have been cut and privatized with disastrously inadequate replacements. And now the victims of the anti-government, anti-tax philosophy implemented by Bush and his minions for 5 years -- not those killed by the storm that nobody could have saved, but the greater number who have since died of neglect and incompetence.
The rich have gotten richer; the poor have gotten poorer. If a people is to be judged by their treatment of the least among them, then we should be judged harshly for what has occurred to the least among us under Bush. More and more of them are becoming less and less. More and more of them are dying. The youngest, the oldest, the sickest, the poorest. And the oil companies post record profits, and corporate leaders reap record compensation. And the gaps grow.
But Bush is beyond accountability. He has no political future, but he needs none. He'll retire with his unneeded and unearned pension to supplement his unearned fortune. The Bush family won't have to worry about finding him baseball teams to pretend to run or companies to run into the ground. He can fish and cut brush and sit on Trent Lott's front porch and smirk out the rest of his days without a care in the world -- just as he is now.
In the meantime, he has the time and the opportunity to do the greatest damage of all -- appoint at least two relatively young Supreme Court justices who can perpetuate in our laws the philosophy of ignorance, fear, greed and self-righteous superstition that Bush embodies. They can continue to roll back the clock long after time has finally claimed Bush's smirk and sent him to join his victims.
And there's no way to prevent this. Mid-term elections won't matter. The opposition is too weak and too weak-willed. After a slight delay to complete damage control and shift the blame under cover of new lies, ideology will rule again. The rich will continue to get richer, and the poor will continue to get poorer. Those entrusted with our government will continue to work for its demise. And their politics will continue to kill people. The mentally impaired prisoners Bush executed in Texas were just the beginning of his body count.
Sometimes I hate being right. More right than I could have known. More right than I could have feared.
Simbob
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DUNCES CONFEDERACY <===> continuation of top RATED 99 posts from prior year in my twenty TMF subForums, FYI
posted by USSSlavebation @ 11/02/2005 02:27:00 pm
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